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CRS Official Chat Event - 3/16/00

This is a log of the fourth official World War Two Online chat event that took place March 16th, 2000. Chris "Mo" Sherland and Jonathan "Hoof" Hoofwere the guest speakers, with Al "Rafter" Corey as the chat moderator and Troy "Ramp" Lowe watching over the network. The special topic of the night was: the damage model.

oxygen damage..so that pilot has to dive to lower alt..? what will be the time to blackout..and what amount of time to recover?
that's the plan :) but won't be a problem if your oxygen system is intact

swimming, lifeboats?
Yes BRAZOS, but we're talking about the damage model :)

Why triangular heads instead of square? Less polys, or a better reason?
Less polys :)

will losing OX cause blackout or something?
Yes, OXY will be modeled in all A/C that had it. And yes, lack of OXY will cause BO

Here's your big chance ;). Why is polygon collision detection better than cube-based hit mapping?
poly detection allows for a much more accurate collision model for the shape of the vehicle, but where it really shines is in determining obliquity of hits, which is *essential* for armor penetration calculations plus things like wings from edge on tend to have really small profiles which are harder to model accurately with a matrix hit map.

will a leg shot cause a player to limp or something of that nature?
Yes limping and blood loss will cause fatigue levels to diminish etc. Each part of a player/vehicle will be damage-able :)

Do we multiply 5 X 1000 to figure out people per theatre? i.e 1000 vehicles per theatre?
Well, that'll depend on how many theaters we have up and how many folks log on. Yes 1000 is what we are shooting for as a LOW limit

To what extent will you be representing damage on ground troops? Not the gore level, but the level of detail on the system itself. Location specific damage?
ground troops will use a poly-based hit map as well, and what you hit will affect how the ground troop is "affected" :)

Can you disable vehicles by shooting tires ,tracks ,etc?
Yup

This is about the gunnery model, but that is related to the damage model isn't it? Will you be modeling every projectile of high rate of fire weapons?
yes, we'll be modelling every round, and different *types* of round in the belt. For example, the MG 151/20 was often equipped with AP and HE type rounds which have different ballistics, so shooting at someone in a deflection shot might cause one type of round to miss due to different trajectories

oh uumm howmany people do you plan to have per game and if it is lot how will lag affect that
RF: Lag is being addressed with our host architecture, players per game.....we hope LOTS :)

All compartments of a ship going to be modeled, or will they just get a hole in the side. :)
holes and compartments will be modelled :) you can damage components like engines and guns, but you can also affect watertightness of a compartment that might cause a flood (read: holes)

With vehicles and penetration, will the rounds meandering about the inside of the tank or what have you be modelled?
Once penetration takes place, we'll start throwing spall and stuff around in there and ruin the driver's day :)

Do the colors on your damage map indicate the level of damage or critical parts, or do they just help to highlight components?
highlight components

Damage modeling looks to be extensive..how far are you taking it in planes..will you be able to blow your opponents canopy off and will i beable to see it happen? If so obviuosly your going to model drag with that effect? Will tracers beable to penetrate through the canopy and hit my dash? Will this effect any pilot control for the plane?
a full penetration model will be in place, you can have a round enter the rear fuselage, go through the rear fuel tank, thru the pilot seat, pilot, dash, and embed in the engine block. Parts that come off will be visible from other front ends. Your pilot will be affected by any damage to him or his planes

will fatigue be model... i.e. if a wing spar is hit... will high g loads eventually rip it off? but not right away?
Yes KD :)

If you bounce your Sub of the bottom or an underwater object will you take collision damage? And will there be naval charts to avoid the above?
Yes to damage from "shock" and "bumping" :) We're working on an underwater "map", but not sure of the resolution yet, but if we do it it'll be accurate, just lowre res than the AGL stuff

How much damage can each vehicle sustain before respwning it like could i drive a tank after it had the toop blown off
not sure about when you loose your turret, but vehicles should be operatable if the operating equipment is still functional

will you see flame damage, and smoke froma distance?
Brazos: Yes, we'll have an FX system in place that'll display fire and smoke from damged objects...if you're close enough to see it ... you will.

Will expending ammo affect CoG/mass in different vehicles?
but of course phaetn :) So will raising/lowering gear

Will there be a way to repair damage if you make it back to your side of the lines?
ddart: Neg not in the plan. Only resupply right now.

will forehead shots be a rarity? with the trinagular head?
forehead shots? The head of a pilot/persona will be actual size, so if the round hits, it hits

Will I be able to knock down a door by kicking it? Or better yet, put dents in the fender of an Opel?
not sure about a fender :) but knocking down door by kicking it? probably not

Will damage to the aircraft skin effect the drag and lift of that component?
Yes vila, the damage will be an analog curve on the flight model side...increased drag, etc.

Will fuel consumption influence the CoG of ACs like in AH?
yes dancer

Will there be different types of ammo and if so will pilots be able to mix these different kinds of ammo? And will the different types be able to do noticably different kind of damage?
Yes frontline, we want to support custom "belting" with historical ammo types :)

Will engines have components that can be affected, I.E. Loose a cylinder, but continue to function?
DT: sorta: We will digrade engine (and ALL component) performance with increased damage levels, but not individual cylinders

Will your be able to drag dead/incapacited people out the way so you can assume control of a vehicle?
you will be able to take over a position "vacated" by gunfire, yes :)

When an aircraft is hit will the damage play a roll in the stall rate hence cnaopy blown out?
aerodynamics degrade with damage, the effect on stall falls right out of the flight model on its own

can you take damage simply from over heating
Yes RF

Wouldn't the triangular heads give more accurate coverage upside down? :)
Pencil necks!?!?!?!!? NEVER!

Is spall and such to be modeled based on real life physics or random or generic?
real life physics :) whoever's in line with the striking round when it penetrates or causes spall ain't gonna feel too good in the morning

re: pices parts coming off, will there also be some kind of hit sparks (tho not neccesarily indicating damage)
BIG sparks from BIG guns etc

So I can have varying levels of engine performance beyond Running or Not?
yes downtown, whole bunch of effects ranging from oil leaks, to coolant leaks, to decreased performance, to engine vibration, etc
and also fires :)

any poly limits to objects? Any geforce support?
Yes lakc, we have to have limits :) And geeforce is on the list to do...news later

Will C4 or other kinds of explosvies be used?
We will model that eventualy, probably not right away.

Will a tank or supply vehicles be able to hide under trees if an attacking aircraft comes over
yes samart

How is damaged systems calculated... splash damage from penatrative rounds, actual round contact, or both?
All of the above GNNR: We'll model penetration, explosive and spalling, and kinetics, as well as stress

If a tank have to cross a river. Will it only be possible at a brigde ? ( I assume there will be rivers ) Or will it be possible to do it other places too. If not, will the tank then "drown " ?
we're hoping to model fording shallow rivers, but that'll be determined specifically when we get the aquatic model in

Let's talk gore levels on humans (and sheep). Will this be rated PG13 or R?
Jury still out on that...a LOT less than SOF...think R6

Will fortifications (aka maganot line ect) have detailed damage maps like the vehicles?
All ground objects will use a poly-based penetration and collision detection model, and of course you can take out defensive guns and stuff, does that answer you question r2ch?

will planes do all the way to the ground when damaged beyond repair or explode as in other sims?
All the way down...unless a system goes "boom" and there's nothing left to fly :)

re: Fires -- will grass, and woods be able to be set ablaze? and might wind affect these, or remain in place?
Not sure yet...good questions though OZ....mothinks we need to look at that :)

Will tanks and other vehicles be able to get stuck in craters left by explosions?
yes frontline

the affectiveness of aircraft bullets against Submarines be affected by depth of water?
Yes on depth....

will you put ALL the appropriate marking on the AVG P-40s for the CBI?
No downtown, I specifically am never going to put that marking on the P40
since you insulted me so bad in Warbirds (BWG)

What about the 32 plane limit? will we have ghost pings?
just skeletal ones dancer :) we plan of handling more than 32 players yes :)

so I'm assuming that the poly model (and improved gunnery model) will get rid of the "glass elevator" syndrome? and will air-air collisions be modeled without instant explosions?
Yes kevdog, it will help that a LOT. Collisions will be tested in the beta so we can get a good system on line.

what about gravity? if you take out enough of the ground floor will the building fall?
if a hole appears in the floor due to building damage, you'll fall through it grj if you were standing there :)

Have you decided to put mines in the game yet?
that has not been determined yet frontline

will you be modelling Canadian destroyers?
Yes RF, there will be a Commonwealth Navy as well as the RN

any ideas how many players might be able to be crammed in X space (all visible, or able to be vis if you look)
as many as we can oz :)

How many players in closed beta?
can't answer that one right now ddart

So infantry will be able to enter buildings ? Can tanks destroy 1 wall and hide in a building. ?
Infantry in Buildings: yes...one wall of a structure...probably...we are in the middle of getting THAT system finalized. More news soon.

How are things going? Any new videos coming? You talked about Bandwidth also. What are the restraints that you are having to say within?
things are going well? it's a hard battle, the chains on my ankles are chafing a bit, but I think we'll pull it off :)

How is individuals (ie the people/crew) damage to be modeled? Will it include limiting movement or action?
getting injured is a bad thing :) your movement will be affected by your condition, woulded, fatigue, etc

Will there be anyway to repair bases,or will the servers reset after awhile?
Bases will get resource flow from the strat system...no resets.

can small arms fire like one shot if placed well take out a ground attacking plane
sure ratfink :) ya just gotta hit the right spot (like the left temple of the pilot )

most of the larger capital ships have quite extensive machine shops, will this repair capability at sea be modeled?
Yes R2CH

will pilots be able to bail out of damaged planes, or will we ride them in?
Both Gunner, you can ride it in like in Dr Strangelove, or jump for your life :)_

friendly fire damage? any more news yet?
not yet kevdog, we've going to try some stuff in the beta, see what's best

Any details available as to window damage? Holes, cracks, whole thing shatters?
not sure yet, we've got to see what the technology lets us do

leaking fuel tanks on ships..leave a trail of oil crumbs....catch fire?..refueling at sea?
Good idea....we'll see what we can afford BW wise as far as trails go. Might not be too long :(

carrier landing and base landings..a pilots crashes on landing will it effect the runway for takeoff for landing in any way?
not sure yet mave

Will certain tanks and airplanes have vitual hits which if done correctly could take it out in almost one shot?
Depends on the vehicle system and the round hitting...lots of variables there.

Aircraft carriers only carried a limited # of Aircraft to sea, will A: the number of available a/c from a CV be modeled and B: if so can you be restocked by flying new ones from land bases or jeep carriers?
aircraft carriers will probably be like airbases r2ch, otherwise the available planes would get depleted quickly then no more use for carrier

Will ditching on water be different from ditching on land/forest/etc? (it's rediculous in brand W right now ;)
Yes, we'll be making all terrain types have accurate pressure/drag outlines. Water will be tricky if AOA is to high :)

damage to instruments..blood in eyes...oil on canopy shield..blocking view?
as much as we can hardcase, given the limitations

how will thickness of components be considered with a poly based system... that is, where thickness varies?
Vila: each poly will have a damage risistance that will aproximate "thickness"

Will Tree damage be modeled? Stumps and logs?
depends on the tree grj, the general forests will probably emphasize lots of trees over detailed damage, but it'll depend on the guys making the terrain on how they want to do it

swimming modelled? ozreckons sunk ships, LCI that not make the beach etc
Yes swimming...sychronized even :)

will secondary affects of something being damaged affect surronding objects... like if shot over a tree and their were people beside it would it crush them... odd question aint it
should be ratfink, if a bridge collapses when you're on it, you'll fall :)

so, if a round penetrates, say a fuel tank, how do you consider, the tank wall, contents, and opposite tank wall
That will all be considered. The round will "spend" energy getting in, then more "going thru" then we'll check if it has enough to get thru the backside. When going "thru" we'll have it look for "contents" :) It's going to be awesome :)

What damage will that french soldier have? arm? leg? to what extent do you break down the damage on grunts?
blood loss, trauma, fatigue, inability of doing certain functions, falling down, death, that sort of thing dancer

If a ship gets into a battle survives ,but sustains heavy damage is unable to make to a port will another computer conrtoled ship come and repair or what?
Supply ships FL, That's the secret, but players will have to make that happen themselves.

Will bullets spawn (rickocet) inside Tanks if infrantry shoot in the capulas?
bullet effects into tanks will be modelled, long story on the effects, been chatting with Sergeant Tadlock (army tanker who was in the war in Iraq) on the subject, we'll model it right. Ricochetting bullets don't do the kind of damage that most people think in tanks (in that 99% of deaths from a bullet occur before the first bounce)

radio damage...will it destroy your communications with higher ups?
Comms will remain HC. We'll see how that plays and take all suggestions from the beta...have to wait and see on that one.

How will damage to a plane's propellor be determined? Will any round going through the propellor disk cause propellor damage?
Yes Trich...and buffeting too!! Prop will be individual blades too BTW

Can you tell us some about how buildings and trees are going to be mapped, I.E. will there be several building types, several tree types?
there will be many building types and tree types, as many as we can fit in the game w/o seriously affecting the frame rate

kamikaze damage?
Gunner: damage will be applied if things crash into other things :) If that's done on purpose well then...so be it :)

If I played for 12 hours straight would my guy get tired?
fatigue will be modelled frontline, running everywhere could make combat ... er ... interesting ...

Thanks to Mo and Hoof for taking the time to answer our questions, as well as Rafter, Ramp, and the rest of the Playnet.com staff for setting this all up once again. Great work!